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The Biggest Plot Hole Involving BvS Batman Killing
Y’know, I’ve made it clear that I’m not a fan of Batman killing people. I just think that’s contrary to who the character is in the modern age. Batman should not kill people. However, let’s assume you’re whoever it was that decided Batman must be a killer in the current DC movies. Regardless of my own personal feelings on the matter, let’s go with that premise. However, beyond simply acclimating us to Batman killing people, as Confused Matthew recently pointed out in his own review of Batman v Superman, you need to make sure that there are no contradictory issues involving him killing people with his other actions and inactions. And, in the case of these movies, I think I may have found one.
Now, I know we all liked to think that the ending of Man of Steel, where Superman snaps Zod’s neck, would act as the catalyst for him deciding to never kill again, that being forced to do so and feeling so awful about it would, in turn, make Superman a better person. However, considering he kills at least two more times in BvS, I think it’s safe to say that was never the plan. Sorry, it just wasn’t. BUT, let’s give the benefit of the doubt and assume that, given Batman’s decision not to kill or brand Lex Luthor at the end of BvS, he’s decided to abandon his killing ways. That way, we can even craft character development around it, in that meeting Superman and Wonder Woman and saving Martha Kent’s life, something has changed inside of him, and he’s not going to kill anymore. That means that, whenever the situation comes up where he COULD kill someone and doesn’t, we know why and it makes at least some sort of sense. However, there’s still a problem that’s been nagging at me ever since the movie came out…and I think I finally figured out what it is. And ultimately, it comes down to three panels…
And that’s when I realized the biggest plot hole regarding Batman killing people: Given what we’ve seen and heard in these movies, we can infer that Batman started down this much darker road after Joker killed Jason Todd. And, as I’ve mentioned before, that actually makes sense when you consider what happened in the comics. The biggest difference between what happened there and what’s going on in the comics is that, apparently, in this universe, Tim Drake never stepped into Batman’s life, and he went down a route of killing his enemies. But, if all of that’s true, then why in the hell is the Joker still alive? Why wasn’t he the FIRST person Batman killed? And don’t give me any bull about how he hasn’t been able to catch him, because I refuse to believe that, in all of that time, he NEVER caught him. Hell, according to Suicide Squad, Harley Quinn was an accomplice in Robin’s murder. Why didn’t Batman kill HER when he fished her out of the bay? Honestly, I think the only reason he doesn’t kill Deadshot is because his daughter was there watching the whole thing go down. Now, admittedly, we don’t know EXACTLY when he caught both of these individuals, but I was under the assumption they were both just a little bit before BvS, since the Justice League trailers and the ending of BvS seems to indicate he immediately began putting all of his efforts into locating and bringing Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman into the fold. So even if he DID decide not to kill anymore by the end of that movie, these events would’ve happened BEFORE then. Harley and the Joker should both be dead as shit. It makes no logical sense, if Batman kills people, and they’re the ones who sent him down this dark path, that he wouldn’t kill them. So yeah, add this to the LONG list of ways that the makers of these movies have failed hard… … …Though it’s hardly the worst way.
Are there any other plot holes you can think of regarding Batman killing people? Lemme know in the comments below. Ja né!
What I Bought Today – Batman #20, Batman and Robin #20 (Batman and Red Hood), JLA #3 (WARNING – SPOILERS) + DC Universe Online Update + Changes to Comics I’ll Be Buying
So I got a LOT I need to cover today, so let’s just start off by looking at…
I bought three comics, one fun, one kinda depressing, and one…well, I’ll get to that. Let’s begin with the fun one, Batman #20.
I feel so bad for Clayface. Poor Karlo had this perfect frakking plan, and it all fell apart before his very eyes, though not for the reason I thought. Clayface’s plot was to become Bruce Wayne and cause crimes, which would get Batman’s attention in a hurry, and then he was going to make contact with Batman’s skin, thus becoming whoever Batman was under the cowl. Well, it seemingly works, and right in front of Gordon and his men, but it turns out Batman’s wearing a fibre mask under his cowl coated with the DNA of Bruce Wayne (which is actually his own, if yer following along) in order to sort of trick Clayface. Meanwhile, Clayface is now stuck in a light-screen panic room that can only be opened by the one man who Clayface doesn’t have the sufficient DNA to assume the form of: His own. Also, HOLY SHIT, Batman Beyond!
…Man, the writers for DC must REALLY love Batman Beyond, between this and Batwing, and I’ll explain that in a later post.
Batman and Red Hood, AKA the anger phase…Umm, Bruce is a serious asshole in this comic. I know that’s probably the intent, so points there, but he is a SERIOUS asshole to Carrie Kelley, who comes looking for Damian (turns out he was paying her for acting classes, likely after the thing with Alfred in Batman and Robin Annual #1). He then recruits Jason Todd to go hunting bounty hunters who had previously come looking to collect on Damian, during which Batman INTENTIONALLY CRIPPLES THEIR HANDS FOR LIFE. And from there, it gets even better, because then he takes Jason to the place where he’d died all those years ago, hoping it would jar his memory and help him learn the method for bringing Damian back…So his plan is to make Jason remember the worst day of his entire existence so he can learn to use a method that is probably highly unethical and dangerous as shit to raise the dead. Again, Bruce is an asshole, and Jason pretty much spells it out like it is and punches him out, leaving for Red Hood and the Outlaws #19 (LET’S DO THE TIME WARP AGAIN!).
JLA #3…Yeah, I might be dropping this book in a month or two. There’s still some fun to be had with it, and I don’t blame a single person who wants to stick with it, but unless I’ve missed my guess, I can see where this book is going, and it’s not a happy place. Basically, Amanda Waller is forcing Stargirl to be their public face person and not allowing her to go on missions, Martian Manhunter appears downright diabolical or just needing serious emotional help sometimes, Simon Baz STILL has not shown up, and Green Arrow is pretty much bribing his way onto the Justice League of America by agreeing not to tell people Catwoman is on the team. Oh, about that? There was some confusion over the fact that the plot the JLA had in Catwoman #19 hinged on the Secret Society not knowing Catwoman was on the team, which made no sense since she was with them on their mission in this issue and the previous one. Thing is, though, apparently Vibe’s powers make it so that the robots occupying the location they went to couldn’t relay visuals of the team back to the Society, so yes, #19 of Catwoman actually DOES make sense…but it still sucks. lol
Anyway, that’s all for what I bought, but there’s something I gotta address. Like I said, I may be dropping JLA, but it won’t be the only book I drop. Obviously, one other book I’m for sure going to stop buying soon is Batman Incorporated, since the book is ending in July. However, in addition to that, I think I may be dropping Batwoman in favour of Supergirl. No offence to the character, but the story itself has gotten kinda iffy with me, and I just find Supergirl to be more solidly written with more interesting villains. I’ll still be following along with what happens, and if anything noteworthy pops up, I’ll let you guys know about it, but otherwise, I’m pretty sure I’m done with it. Also, don’t think I’ll be picking up Red Hood and the Outlaws again, though there is a MASSIVE improvement in the quality of the stories for anyone who would like to, and I’m thinking that when Batman Incorporated ends its run, I may decide to start buying Batwing.
As for DC Universe Online, I cannot play it. Why? Well, first off, the disc didn’t work right, which may or may not have to do with the fact that apparently Sony has been giving the game away to download for free…OY…On top of that, it seems that my graphics card and processor are both unable to handle the game. Good news is, if I ever get a new computer, I know where to find the game for free. So really, not a big loss.
So that’s all for today. Next week, we check in on Batgirl following the horrific events of last month, we see how Nightwing’s handling the change of scenery, and we find out how Supergirl is handling the whole her-own-base-is-trying-to-kill-her thing. Ja né!
What I Bought Today – Talon #4, Batman Incorporated #7 (WARNING – SPOILERS)
Well, luckily the bad taste of Injustice: Gods Among Us #1 is outta my mouth, thanks in no small part due to…
Oh, and I also bought Batman & Robin Annual #1, but I’m doing a separate blog entry for that so I can give it a proper review. But before I take a look at Talon and Batman Incorporated, I’d like to take a moment to apologize for missing something important in Batman Inc. last time, and as well, I would like to say a fond farewell to a long lasting character in DC since 1950, Cyril Sheldrake, AKA the second Knight, who died at the hands of The Heretic near the end of Batman Incorporated #6. I really have no excuse for not realising he was dead, what with his neck snapping and all. Anyway, Cyril was the second Squire, later taking on the mantle of Knight when his father passed away, and then taking on Beryl Hutchinson as his new Squire. He was a prominent member of the Batmen of All Nations and Batman Incorporated, with he and Squire acting essentially as Batman & Robin’s counterparts in England. Indeed, a legend has fallen within the Bat Family…
Anyway, I suppose I might as well start with Batman Incorporated #7…

The most dangerous army in the world is the kind that can kill you with ease, and you can’t bring yourself to kill them.
Batman is captured by Talia after The Heretic kinda beat the shit out of him. Nightwing looks over the evacuation of the Batman Inc. members that were in the building, and Beryl is a WRECK after what has happened to Knight, blaming herself. They don’t have much time to grieve, though, when all of a sudden a bus full of kids brainwashed into serving Leviathan arrives, attacking with weapons as the police are unable to fight back due to them being children. Wingman, who as you’ll recall is actually Jason Todd, heads to Batcave East when he’s tasered down by The Hood, who declares that Batman Inc. is over and he’s getting out while the getting’s good. Red Robin is nearly blown up, Traktir and Spidra may be about to die, but through all of this, Damian learns the truth about Batman’s visions of the future: The Batman of the future is not Damian. Piecing together what he’s seen and learned over the past few years worth of comics (pre-Flashpoint Batman & Robin and Batman Inc.), he deduces that The Heretic is his clone, created by Talia to replace Batman at the right given time. As Talia puts Batman through a death trap that will either kill him or leave him unable to stop Talia in time, Damian decides enough is enough and becomes Robin to go out and try and save his father, the city, and the world. Overall, great story, though hampered by the death of Cyril, who we hopefully either find out isn’t really dead, gets raised again, or his death serves a higher purpose like turning Beryl into the next Knight.
Dammit, I love Talon. Seriously, someday I hope to see this guy join either Batman Inc. and/or the Justice League. He’s THAT good. I’m still pretty sure Sebastian Clark is gonna turn heel at some point, Casey and Sarah and their group are all awesome in their own ways, and of course, Calvin Rose remains a badass. Sadly, when a monster of a Talon known as The Gotham Butcher, comes looking for them, Casey has to scramble her networks, but after they give the Gotham Butcher the slip and wash him down the Hudson, Calvin and Casey decide it’s time to go to Gotham and stand against the Court of Owls together like they should have in the first place. However, Calvin makes one mistake: He says the words “We’ll never see him again” in relation to the Gotham Butcher, which of course leads to the last image being the Butcher’s fist emerging from the Hudson in a major WTF moment, since Talons brought back from the dead are vulnerable to the cold, and he got flushed into the Hudson IN JANUARY! This guy really IS a monster! :O
Anyway, that’s it for those two comics. Next up, I give my review of Batman & Robin Annual #1. Ja né!
I Don’t Believe There’s Such A Thing As A Bad Story Concept In Comics
You know, after having watched Atop The Fourth Wall for as long as I have and having read a few bad comics myself, I wanna share some insight that I’ve developed: For all the REALLY bad comics out there, I truly believe the concepts behind the stories they are trying to tell could still work if handled CORRECTLY. I really don’t think that I could ever truly say that a story concept is bad. Weird, bizarre, out there, difficult to convey, dark, grim, sad, sure I’d say those, but none of those make a concept bad, because while they can be one of or even several of those things, if the concept still has the potential to WORK, if isn’t BAD.

Amazons Attack
I’ll avoid going into too much detail about this, since the worst comics in the world have already been touched on by Linkara, and he has already gone into detail about how most of the concepts could have been done right and in much better fashion than I probably would be capable of doing. However, I will say that the reason they fail almost always has to do with one thing: the execution. The means by which the concept was conveyed. And the reason the execution fails is usually different. Sometimes the writer’s a hack, sometimes the editors get too involved and mess it all up, and sometimes the concept is simply misinterpreted and shit happens. But I don’t think that’s the fault of the concept.

Red Hood and the Outlaws
I will give one example: The one comic I tend to bitch and moan the most about is Red Hood and the Outlaws. I’ve already said this before, but having Starfire lose her memories of her time on Earth and of her time with the Titans and then teaming up with Jason Todd and Roy Harper does make for an intriguing story. Also, having Jason trying to put his past with Batman and Joker behind him and move on with his new life could potentially work. Having Roy Harper, AKA Speedy, AKA Red Arrow, AKA Arsenal, joining a new group and finding himself genuinely caring for his new comrades and accepting them as his friends and having some happiness after the crap he’s endured makes for a good concept. Where it got screwed up is that Kori was made an uninterested-in-humanity whore, Jason was made part of a super secret organization (which is really only bad because there’s like a dozen of them in the New 52) and most of Roy’s history (the loss of his arm and the existence of his daughter Lian) were wiped away. If they had just stuck with those first three concepts, we would’ve had a much better comic. Maybe not one everyone would love, but still way better than what we got.

Countdown
But anyway, that’s my take on comic book concepts. Comment as you like, and feel free to disagree with me if you want. Just don’t make it an argument, and please give facts to your case. That’s all I ask. Ja ne!
Related articles
- 90th Blog Post! More Roster Contemplations for JLA Fanfic + Red Hood and the Outlaws Rant (jygersrant.wordpress.com)
90th Blog Post! More Roster Contemplations for JLA Fanfic + Red Hood and the Outlaws Rant
So yeah, a few more superheroes I’m contemplating using. Even though I’ve already kinda got a storyline thought out, there are still spots on the team I haven’t decided on, so for my 90th blog post, let’s take a look at some more potential members.
Before I do though, there’s something I gotta address. A common thing you’ve likely heard me say is “I haven’t read any of the comics that _____ was in”. Well the thing is, I never really started collecting comics until a year ago, and the only ones I’ve been collecting are Scott Snyder‘s Batman (since the very first issue), Batman: Detective Comics (though I stopped collecting that recently), Red Hood and the Outlaws (again, dropped that because it stopped being a guilty pleasure and instead just became painful to read, but we’ll get to that later), Nightwing (starting with the Night of Owls tie-in, though I do plan to get the trade of the previous issues), Batman & Robin (again, starting with the Night of Owls tie-in), Earth-2, World’s Finest, and Batman Incorporated…Yeah, not hard to tell that Batman’s my favourite character, huh?
So yeah, prior to that, my knowledge of the heroes of the DC universe was limited to the DCAU which I still love to death, articles that I’d read online, wikis, and of course the greatest comic book review show EVER, Atop The Fourth Wall. After a while, I decided to start collecting comics myself, but since the reboot was on the way, I opted to wait until it started first since I felt it would be a good jumping-on point, and that’s the reason I haven’t read the comics involving a lot of these characters. Luckily for me, however, I have discovered the DC Comics Database wiki…or possibly unluckily, since I can’t seem to tear myself away from it for very long these days since the back-stories of a lot of these characters is so engaging.
So now that we got that out of the way, let’s go through some more potential members of the Justice League for my fic right now.

The Martian Manhunter
Reasoning: In almost every version of the Justice League’s origin story, Martian Manhunter played a role. I think the only major retelling that doesn’t is the current one for the New 52, and that’s only because he’s serving with StormWatch, and even then it’s suggested that he joined the League at some point but was kicked out due to some sort of fight between himself and the other members. I am actually contemplating involving StormWatch at some point if I don’t add him to the League in my fic.
Interpretation: Wise and knowledgeable (yes, there’s a difference between the two), though often times plagued with the loneliness that comes from being (one of) the last member(s) of his race. He’ll come with the basic run-down of his better-known powers without making him too similar to Superman (a practise I believe the DCAU did as well). He can fly, he can read minds, and can alter his body to make increase/decrease his mass, make himself invisible, shape-shift, phase through solid objects, and even regenerate from the smallest pieces of himself possible.

Aquaman
Reasoning: Okay, maybe instead of giving reasons why he should be on the team, I should address the reason people likely wouldn’t: That his ability to control aquatic life is “useless” in certain situations, like if they fight in a place with no water. Point made, but yer missing out on something else if you thought about it logically: Since he operates at the bottom of the sea, obviously a lack of oxygen isn’t a problem for him. He’d have to be much stronger, faster, and more reflexive than the average human to withstand the constant pressure. And finally, his natural senses would be enhanced as well. In particular, he’d need enhanced vision to combat the lack of light down there. Add in a badass nature to his character and his skills as a leader that come from being King of Atlantis, and I have to ask: Why WOULDN’T you want him on your side in a jam?
Interpretation: Pretty much everything I just said. And no, I’m not giving him the beard and the hook hand. I’m with MarkMadness on this one, I think that was an unnecessary attempt to amp him up and overdose him with badassness (not a real word, I know), and he doesn’t really need it.

Cyborg
Reasoning: Member of the Justice League on many an occasion, and in the New 52, he becomes one of the founding members…which is a good thing and a bad thing. Why bad? Well, because it means that the New Teen Titans never really happened at all, which is kind of irritating. Still, Cyborg is both an athletic powerhouse and possesses a high intelligence inherited from his father, thus proving to be a good choice.
Interpretation: Strong, athletic, intelligent, and comes complete with all sorts of high-tech gadgets in his body. I know a lot of writers tend to do a sort of conflict between the machine and the man with him, and while I may reference that he DID have that conflict, I think I want him to be pretty much over it and be just glad to be alive and saving lives. And don’t worry, I don’t plan to have him say “Booyah!” every five seconds, though I imagine it will be hard to keep him from saying it at least once if I do include him.

Starfire
Reasoning: Oh boy…Okay, it’s because I like the character and that she has served as a member of the JLA before, but there’s more to it than that. If you’ll allow me to go off on a rant, there’s something I’ve been meaning to get off my chest about this character.

Starfire in the Teen Titans cartoon
Again, I got into the Titans through their animated series, and while Starfire wasn’t my favourite character (that honour goes to Raven), she was kind, sisterly, forgiving, and possessed a naivety that made her endearing. Now, I understand that in the comics Kori wasn’t exactly like that, and also had a liberated sexuality, and you can make your arguments on whether that’s a good thing for the character or not. The thing is, though, that while she made love with whomsoever she wanted, it was about making LOVE, not bonking for the sake of bonking.

Starfire and Nightwing: Lovers
And then Red Hood and the Outlaws happened, and she became someone who was generally uninterested with human beings, had her happiest thought being snapping the neck of someone who showed kindness to her while she was a slave, had her memories of BETTER stories wiped from her mind, the size of her breasts had the ability to change from panel to panel (okay, really it was the artists not knowing her breast size, but that would be a little funny in an admittedly sick way if they said that) and generally had sex with whoever she wanted all the while claiming that “love had nothing to do with it”.

Red Hood and the Outlaws #1
Now, I’m not gonna claim to be sitting on some higher moral whatever and that the idea of a character acting in such a manner offends me to my very core. If they just had a whole new character acting in such a manner, I probably wouldn’t have even taken much notice to it. What bothers me is that they did this with Kori! And the saddest part is, having her be amnesiac and hanging with Red Hood actually does make for an intriguing storyline. Hell, even knowing she slept with him one time is alright and at least makes for a plot point that you know will eventually hit the wall when Dick Grayson eventually finds out about all of this, and you just KNOW he will. That’s actually why I stuck with it for as long as I did, because it looked like the team was gelling together as friends more and they were heading somewhere with it, but when I opened issue 10 and saw that they were planning to keep up with this bullshit AND that it was a change to her whole species, I had to drop it because of how insulted I was. FU, Scott Lobdell. FU!

Red Hood and the Outlaws #3
…Okay, rant over. But yeah, let’s move on to interpretation.
Interpretation: I am very sorely tempted to make her exactly like her Teen Titans cartoon counterpart, but then again, she would be an adult in this, so…I’m thinking have her dialogue resemble how she spoke in that show, but have her more adult nature as well. Also, I’m thinking her powers should be more based off of her comic book version, and that she gets them by absorbing ultra-violent radiation.
So yeah, those are a few more of the heroes I’m contemplating. Now again, I have a general story idea thought out, so expect the fic to come out sooner or later. Til then, ja ne!