Jyger’s Rant – The Killing Joke (WARNING – ANGRY RANT, FOUL LANGUAGE, AND MATURE SUBJECT MATTER AHEAD)
… … …So, it’s been a month. I decided to take some time away from the blog for a few reasons, none of which I really wanna get into. Well, except maybe for the sake of refocusing my efforts on Power Rangers Guardians of Gaia Season 2, but that’s another story for another day. Point is, after a while, I knew that, if I was gonna come back, it would have to be something big that would bring me back. And then DC decided to give me a gift: Something to rant about until I’m blue in the face. Really, you guys, you shouldn’t have…Y-…You REALLY shouldn’t have. I was kinda hoping you wouldn’t, what with DC Rebirth moving along pretty well so far, and the trailers for upcoming DC Films actually looking rather decent (or at least more-so than they were)…And then The Killing Joke happened!
So, I was originally gonna do a review of this movie. Then I decided not to, because I decided I wasn’t gonna see it, for a reason I will explain in a bit. Then I decided that I probably SHOULD see it, and that a review of it would be something worth posting on the blog. So I saw it…and then I read some of the fallout…and ultimately, what I’ve decided is not to review it. Instead, I’ve decided to just highlight one or two problems the movie has, particularly one where I felt like I got gang-raped up the ass…! … …So, let’s.
First off, I should probably make it clear that I’m not talking about anything that was specifically lifted from the book. I’m not here to talk about the book. I think people have talked about the book enough, and I know it’s one of maybe three or four books the higher-ups at DC actually remember releasing, so I’m not gonna go there. I will also award the movie this much: It did exactly as I specifically asked them to do almost a full year back. They not only had Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill reprise their roles as Batman and The Joker, but they also included in the mid-credits a scene where we see Babs become Oracle. This did not save the movie, mind you, but it did keep it from getting no stars whatsoever, or worse, being…
However, for the benefit of those who have never seen the movie or read the book, and I don’t know how you can be a fan of the character Batgirl and not know this, but this is the story all about how a life got flipped, turned upside down, and I’d to take a minute, just sit right there, and I’ll tell how Barbara Gordon got stuck in a wheelchair. Yes, this is the story where Babs gets shot in the spine by Joker as a means to try and make her father crack, and she loses the ability to walk. This later resulted in her becoming Oracle, where she REALLY got to shine as a character, until the New 52 decided to make her Batgirl again for reasons of iconic, which they themselves can’t even seem to properly define. For a while, we were left to assume that she never was Oracle in this new universe, but the new Batgirl and the Birds of Prey book have re-established this part of her life as being canon. However, all of this occurred after The Killing Joke came out, and none of it was planned, and, in fact, when writer Alan Moore approached Len Wein with the idea, he said, and I quote, “Yeah, okay, cripple the bitch”. Moore has later admitted that maybe this wasn’t a good idea, and it really shows how bad the relationship is between Moore and DC when, unless I missed something, he isn’t credited for the book in the movie, Brian Bolland is.
So, what’s my point? Well, in realizing the story only involved Barbara as a prop, Bruce Timm and Brian Azzarello decided to maybe tack on a prologue of sorts to make her a more active part of the story. Now, here’s the thing: That’s actually not a bad sentiment to have. The biggest problem with the story is how it mishandles her, so making her an actual character and not just someone who acts as a motivation for other characters is a good idea… … …They fucked it up. Royally. And really, should we be shocked? Let’s look again at those names, shall we? Bruce Timm and Brian Azzarello. Now, first off, Azzarello is the guy who decided it was a good idea to have the Amazons be made into lying, raping murderers who traded their children for weapons. Not someone I typically trust to write women in a positive manner. Then there’s Timm. And this is where I actually kinda hate this movie on a personal level, because now I have to say something I KNOW I’m gonna regret later, but I still HAVE to say it, so here goes: I love Batman The Animated Series, and I always will, but it REALLY says it all when the character Bruce Timm helped create that gets the most attention in the media was a female supervillain who was the victim of an abusive relationship. Why? Well, let’s just get to the biggest problem with the movie, and it’s summed up in one scene. ROLL IT.
…Now, in case you’re wondering, this is not what pissed me off. On the contrary, watching this scene in full for the first time? It actually made me laugh. It was like a REALLY bad fanfic brought to life. And trust me, I’m speaking as a fanfic writer who has both read and written some bad Batman-related fanfics in the past. In fact, and I probably shouldn’t mention this, but once, a REALLY long time ago, I once decided to write an adult fic involving Poison Ivy and Batwoman. I don’t wanna go into detail, but it was bad. Not only was it bad, it was offensive, and the moment when I realized that and what a horrible thing I’d created, I got rid of it. So, yes, sometimes people will create bad or even offensive stories in an attempt to be dark, controversial, or titillating. That’s not what pissed me off. What pissed me off was listening to Azarrello and Timm defend this decision and actually act like this was a good thing, not just for the story, but for Batgirl. Let’s hear what Bruce Timm had to say about it, shall we?
“We were aware that it’s a little risky. There’s definitely some stuff in that first part of the movie that’s going to be controversial. Here’s where we came down on that specific issue: It was really important to us to show that both of the characters make some pretty big mistakes. I mean, his ‘parental skills’ aren’t that great. Maybe never having had any kids of his own, he doesn’t realize that if you tell a kid to not do something, they’re going to want to do it even more. And then she makes some mistakes and then he kind of overreacts to her mistakes and then she overreacts to his overreaction. So it’s very human; it’s a very understandable story. It’s tricky because it’s messy, because relationships are sometimes messy. But to me and to Alan and Brian, it was all very fascinating to us to explore that angle.”
…Okay, I’m gonna bring up something here. Part of my problem with Bruce Wayne and Barbara Gordon being in a relationship is the fact that she is young enough to be his daughter. I can buy her having a kind of schoolgirl crush on him when she’s just getting started, but beyond that, it’s just ridiculous. With that said, I was under the impression that she was presented in this movie as a consenting adult. You, however, Mr. Timm, are treating her like a child. So, which is it, Timm? Is she a child or an adult? Because if she’s an adult, then this line of thinking is incredibly demeaning. And if she’s not, though, then you’re a sick man for producing a movie where an adult Batman has sex with her. And considering Timm’s past with writing female characters on Batman TAS, Batgirl included, I’m honestly not sure if I believe him or not when he says he doesn’t remember whose idea it was to include the sex scene. And if it WAS Brian’s, and maybe it was, the fact that he jumped right in on it doesn’t shock me. Speaking of, Mr. Azzarello, thank you kindly for showing how much you really care about writing women as empowering by writing them as action and violence addicts who will beat up, kill, and yes, even RAPE if they so choose, and then you call someone trying to make a case for this problematic writing at a convention a “pussy”, you bloody moron.
And here’s the really sad part. Babs becoming Oracle in the mid-credits? It still feels really off-putting, and here’s why: We don’t really see her go through any kind of personal anguish over what’s happened to her. And just like in the book, when she wakes up after her being shot, stripped, and having had pictures taken of her, all she can talk about is how she’s scared of what The Joker is going to do to her father. Granted, this does paint her as someone who cares more for her father and what happens to him than herself, which can be seen as admirable and selfless, but honestly, between that and how seamlessly she goes from that to becoming Oracle in the end, she comes off as being in denial about her condition or that she’s lost anything of importance. Let me give you an example of how odd this is, and spoilers ahead for anyone who hasn’t read Power Rangers Guardians of Gaia: My Green Ranger, Patrick, suffers an incident in the story where he loses the use of his eyes, and has to rely on his other senses and powers to help him beyond that. Admittedly, part of those powers allow him to see mental images of everything the air around him touches, but even he acknowledges it isn’t the same as really seeing with one’s eyes. While he calls the loss of his sight “acceptable losses”, and states that he’d do it all over again for the sake of helping people, he still admits that he DID lose something important. He’s BLIND now. This will only serve to hinder him for the rest of his life, and he knows this. In this movie, however, Barbara is never presented as someone who acknowledges her loss. The only time we see her ever stress or angst over anything is her relationship with Batman and her concern for her father. In other words, the attempt to make her more of an actual character in this story instead only served to make her even more of a prop. Instead of fixing the biggest problem with the book, they made the story WORSE.
Now, because I wanna be a fair man, I wanna bring up something. Bruce Timm has since gone on record that, for him, the implication was never that Babs was raped by The Joker. There’s a line in the movie that highly suggested that for some people who watched it, and he’s said that if he’d known that would suggest that ahead of time, he would’ve changed it. Granted, it was still sexual harassment, but we can at least know that, in this version of the story at least, The Joker did not rape Barbara Gordon. Also, while I asked the question earlier, I’m pretty sure Babs is NOT a teenager in this movie. There’s a difference between being squicky and THAT squicky, and I honestly don’t think Timm is, and probably not even Azzarello for that matter. Again, though, that does not save this movie, just that it stops it and your reputations after releasing it from becoming even worse.
At this point, I’d like to share the closing paragraph from a similar article I shared from The Mary Sue, written by Jessica Lachenal, and I’m quoting once again here: “Ultimately, this Batgirl prologue to The Killing Joke failed to do what Timm said it would do. It didn’t ‘tell a Batgirl story,’ or let us ‘learn that she’s an interesting character.’ What was supposed to be a prologue about Batgirl was, in the end, nothing more than a story about Batman and why he does what he does. In that way, the movie just plain does not work the way that the creators thought it would. The fact that they thought this would be even somewhat of a good thing for her character is, perhaps, the most disappointing thing of all.”
Lastly, I just wanna bring up something somewhat related to this, since I described the Batman/Batgirl scene as bad fanfiction. As part of my site stats, there is something called the Search Engine Terms, which basically shows a list of things people have typed into Google or whatever that, in turn, led them to my site. Over the years I’ve been writing in this blog, I’ve gotten a number of…let’s call them odd terms, that have led people to here. Here are just a few examples…
- bruce wayne in bed with supergirl and powergirl fanfiction
- catwoman und batgirl lesbo sexy
- kid icarus palutena naked
- wonder woman harley quinn sexfic
- nasthalthia luthor porno
- powergirl and supergirl have sex
- pokemon alpha sapphire being naked
- justice league war hentai
- poison ivy and robin fanfiction
- injustice harley quinn naked
- ladydevimon rape
- bruce wayne and selina kyle naked
- batman supergirl fanfiction
- pokemon elesa hentai
- powergirl and supergirl have sex
- barbara gordon hentai
- diana undressing lol
- gay bruce and damian wayne having sex
- birds of prey comic sex rape
- ivy hera venenosa orgasm sexx
- power ranger panties fuck
- wonder woman manga hentai
- nightwing captured fanfiction
…Sometimes I hate my job…-_- Leave your comments below, but just know that if anyone starts an argument or trolls anyone, I’m deleting them ASAP. Ja né, and I’m taking a fucking shower.
… … …Don’t you dare follow me!
…SO, today was kinda nuts. Before I go in-depth on all of the big announcements, since I fully expect more news to come out soon enough, let’s instead take a look at some of the art revealed for the new books and a few quick notes I took for the different titles.
Anyway, that’s all for now. I’ll go more in depth soon enough, though. Lemme know your own thoughts below, and we’ll see how things pan out from now to May 25th, 2016. Ja né!
In an abandoned printing press in Old Gotham, where they used to print crossword puzzles and the like, Edward Nygma, AKA The Riddler, sat back in his chair and looked upon his computer screen with satisfaction, spinning his trademark question mark cane between his palm and the floor. He’d just managed to obtain quite the acquisition: Several of Commissioner Loeb’s most prized and well-kept secrets from the past couple of years. Now, they were his to do with as he pleased. It was days like these that made him most glad to be alive.
It was really no wonder, then, that he barely noticed any sort of presence in his room until said presence yanked on the collar of his green coat, pulling him out of his chair. “What the-?!”
“Hello, Nygma,” the intruder, none other than Batman, said coldly.
The Riddler put on a small grin, albeit a nervous one, as he adjusted his tie. “Well, well, well. If it isn’t Gotham City’s own bruised-knuckled, bat-fixated bully of bandits, black-marketeers, and all-around bad men.”
“I thought we should have ourselves a little talk,” the Dark Knight commented, kicking the balcony window open and dangling Edward over the ledge. “You have information I want.”
Dick tried his best not to hyperventilate. Still, it was hard. What was supposed to be one of the best nights of his life was now turning into the emotional roller coaster straight to Hell. For the average person his age, seeing one’s parents die before their eyes might seem like the thing that would cap off one’s night. Instead, he was nearly killed by a group of corrupt cops, and he was currently sitting in the passenger seat of the Batman’s car. Up until tonight, he had no idea Batman even existed, much less had a car.
The 12-year-old boy looked over at the Dark Knight as he steered the vehicle through the streets of Gotham City. He’d been relatively quiet for the past few minutes since they got in the car, and even though he was wearing a mask, Dick could tell he looked a bit uncomfortable himself, like he wasn’t sure what to do, or that what he was about to do was the right move. It was a strange thing to see out of someone considered by many to be some kind of superhero.
Dick looked down, fidgeting with his seat belt slightly as the car started to enter a more dimly lit area. He was still wearing his Flying Graysons costume. He looked like a neon sign next to the dark and grim Batman. For a split second, he wondered if this made him look overly ridiculous, but that thought was buried under the next, when he realized this would probably be the last time he would ever wear it.
Mom…Dad… Dick thought, grabbing a handful of his tights and gripping hard. Why did you have to die? Who killed you? And why did those men try to shut me up?
J.A. Phillips Presents Batman And Robin: Dark Knight/Boy Wonder Preview + Which Villains Would You Like To See In This Fanfic?
Dick Grayson could barely manage to keep his heart from pounding clean out of his chest. This was going to be one of Haley’s Circus’ biggest shows yet: Amusement Mile, Gotham City. Who knows how many thousands of people in attendance. Dick and his family, the Flying Graysons, performing their signature trapeze act without the safety of a net. And all of it sponsored by billionaire philanthropist, Bruce Wayne.
Without a doubt, this was going to be a night the 12-year-old boy would never forget.
Bruce Wayne couldn’t help but feel a little excited. It’s true that, despite the life he lived, both what the public knew about and what they didn’t, there wasn’t much that made him excited in a legitimately happy and positive way. Still, if there was one thing he still had a love for, it was the circus, and having heard about the Flying Graysons, one of the star acts of Haley’s Circus, he knew he was in for one hell of a show.
There wasn’t a doubt in his mind that this would be a night he’d never forget.
…So yeah, I’m doing this now. lol More-or-less a fixfic of All-Star Batman And Robin, I figured it was either put up or shut up time for me, since I gave my thoughts on how I’d do the story different. Suffice to say, though, because I had to make so many changes to the story, replacing the unintentionally hilarious dialogue and the subplots that make EVERYONE involved look bad, plus making the characters feel more like who they’re supposed to be and removing anyone who didn’t need to be involved, I’ve had to read/watch some additional content to gain further inspiration. Specially, in addition to ASBAR, I’ve read Detective Comics #38 (the part about Robin’s origins, anyway) by Bill Finger and Bob Kane, Nightwing #0 by Tom DeFalco and Kyle Higgins, and The Untold Legend of The Batman #2 by Len Wein, as well as watched Robin’s Reckoning Parts 1 & 2 from Batman The Animated Series, and A Matter Of Family from The Batman.
With all of that said, though, I always like to have a certain degree of input from my fans. And, in this case, I wanna ask if there are any members of Batman’s rogues gallery that you’d like to see in this story. After all, due to the subtraction of anything related to the Justice League in this story, and the fact that the story was never finished and could have a stretch of time leading to the confrontation with the Joker, there’s plenty of room for Batman and/or Robin to interact with various baddies. Keep in mind, though, that the villains present will be those that best fit within the context of the story, and that this story is more-or-less meant to be continuity free, meaning you don’t HAVE to read other Batman stories in order to understand what’s going on and who these people are.
So yeah, lemme know who you think would be a good fit for rogues whom Batman and Robin could encounter in this story, and we’ll see what happens as I continue writing this story. Ja né!
Has anyone else noticed how Arrow, Flash, and Supergirl all have pretty much the same opening sequence for their shows? If you don’t know what I mean, allow me to demonstrate. Here’s the opening for Arrow…
…and now The Flash…
…and now Supergirl.
…Yeah, they’re all pretty much the exact same intro. Why is that? And furthermore, whatever happened to shows having opening credits sequences? You know, like this…
Now, I get why one would be like this. It’s pretty different, and therefore would stand out. But when ALL THREE are like that? And Supergirl isn’t even being shown on the same channel as the other two, although we are apparently getting a team-up with her and Flash…which could result in some AWESOME team-ups and crossovers down the line, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. I’m just saying, why can’t Supergirl’s opening credits look more like THIS…
Or Flash look more like THIS…
Or Supposed-To-Be-Green-Arrow-But-Is-Really-Batman-To-The-Point-Of-Reusing-His-Villains like THIS…
I dunno, maybe I’m just outta touch. What do you guys think? Is it better the way it is now, or am I onto something? Lemme know in the comments, and we’ll see what the consensus is. Ja né!
Scott Snyder Moving To Detective Comics + Whose Idea Was It To Have Jim Gordon Be Batman? (WARNING – MASSIVE SPECULATION AHEAD)
So, it was reported the other day, pretty much in tandem with the whole DC Rebirth thing, that Scott Snyder was going to be leaving the main Batman title. Since then, Greg Capullo pretty much confirmed it on Twitter, and the word going ’round is that Snyder (and possibly Capullo as well, not sure) will be going to Detective Comics…Well, that pretty much changes my plans for when Poison Ivy’s miniseries is wrapped up. See, the thing is, and I was gonna make mention of this eventually, my parents and I recently had to go on welfare, which means I’m gonna have less money to spend on comics, so I’ve had to reduce my pull list to four monthly comics: Poison Ivy, Batgirl, Spider-Gwen, and Ms. Marvel. Once Poison Ivy: Circle of Life and Death was over, I was planning to fill the empty slot with Batman, since Bruce is taking back the cowl. However, between the news that Snyder won’t be on the book anymore, plus the fact that it’ll be a bimonthly release now (two issues a month), it looks like I’ll instead be going with Detective Comics.
But see, here’s something that kinda buzzes the back of my brain. And I wanna make it clear that, from here on out, a lot of what I’m about to say is strictly SPECULATION. I have no REAL evidence about any of this. However, the reason Scott Snyder is leaving Batman for Detective Comics has been suggested to be because he has more stories he wants to tell with Batman, and because the primary Batman title is going to remain more “event driven”, Detective Comics is probably the best place to do it. As such, it brings up a question I’ve had on my mind for quite some time now: Whose idea was it to have Jim Gordon be Batman?
Now, on the one hand, you can see how it might’ve been Snyder’s, because in the Justice League books, Batman is Bruce Wayne, and they’re the books where all the really big shit happens that effects the whole DC Universe. As such, if Snyder’s really going to Detective Comics to get away from having to adhere to the big events going on in the DC Universe, it would suggest that he came up with Jim Gordon being Batman and has now found himself in a position where plans will have to change as a result of storylines going forward requiring Bruce as the main protagonist.
However, on the flip side, in all the Bat Family books, Batman is Jim Gordon, meaning the stuff Snyder personally is writing will always have Jim as Batman for as long as that story is going on. Furthermore, looking at the storyline in hindsight where Jim has had to take over as Batman, you can see elements where it might not have been Scott’s idea. Not only does Jim openly admit that the idea of him being Batman is stupid, but the first issue of this story reveals that Bruce is alive, and then we quickly learn about how he has amnesia. Really, the focus of the story isn’t even on Jim. The focus is on Bruce. Jim is just a place-holder for Batman until Bruce gets his memories back. Also, so many events have happened in the Bat Family books, and in fact new books altogether have been written (We Are Robin, for example), all in the wake of Batman and Joker’s last battle and Batman being presumed KIA. And lastly, on top of all of this, the change involving Jim Gordon becoming Batman happened at the same time that Superman and Wonder Woman changed costumes, and Superman’s identity was made public, which could be seen as DC deciding to copy Marvel’s massive change-ups with Captain America (Falcon becoming the new Cap after Steve Rogers lost the supersoldier serum), Iron Man (turned evil in AXIS, but honestly, who could tell the difference by then?), and Thor (lost the ability to use his hammer, which instead found its way to Jane Foster).
With all of that in mind, if I had to take a guess at what happened, and I fully admit I could be wrong here, I would suggest that Scott Snyder did NOT come up with the idea of Jim Gordon becoming Batman. I’ll grant this much: The final battle with the Joker might have (and probably was) a plan of his, which would in turn lead to a story where Bruce is left without his memories and we see him living a normal life, but that it would ultimately lead to him slowly beginning to remember and making the choice to return. However, if my suggestion of DC wanting to copy Marvel’s recent changes with their big three is correct, I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility that the higher-ups at DC Comics decided to capitalize on both wanting to do that, and capitalizing on Snyder’s story with Bruce losing his memory, as well as the fact that the show Gotham was on, which had Jim Gordon as the main protagonist.
In fact, in regards to that last bit about Gotham? Apparently, a big part of the reason for the upcoming DC Rebirth is to make the current line-up of comics be more reflective of the current TV shows and movies starring these characters. Is this a bad idea? Well…yes and no. See, one big part of why making Starfire the way she was in Red Hood And The Outlaws was so mind-numbingly stupid is because the reboot of The New 52 was meant to bring in new readers. As has been brought up many times before, the only reason a new reader would pick up RHATO is because of the appearance of Starfire, capitalizing on her appearance in Teen Titans, except she was nothing like that version of the character, or her previous comic book incarnation for that matter, and thus they would be turned off from this book. So, changing up the line-up of books to take better advantage of those watching the shows and movies? Yeah, I can see the appeal for that. However, the problem there is for those of us who are already reading the comics, and just had a major reboot to the entire DC Universe a little less than five years ago, and now it looks like we MIGHT be about to endure another one. Do I know this for a fact? No. But would it shock me if that’s what happened? Also no. Now, I’ve already said that a SOFT reboot would be okay, and in fact desirable for many reasons I’ve listed, but if they honestly hit the universal reboot button again? It’d be like saying that we read the past five years worth of comics for NOTHING.
But anyway, like I said, a lot of this is conjecture on my part. And yeah, I could be wrong about a lot of what’s going on, what’s happened, and what’s going to occur. This is just me getting out some theories (and worries) about the current product at DC Comics, which I hope to continue reading in the future. For now, though, as I said earlier, my pull list has been decreased to four comics a month: Two from DC, two from Marvel. As such, I’ve had to drop a lot of books I was reading, and to those that worked on those books, you have my sincere apologies and hopes that your stories continue on and do well. And hey, maybe if my current money situation improves enough in the future, I might be able to buy the trades to get caught up.
For now, though, lemme know what you guys think about everything going on at DC nowadays, and we’ll see how this all pans out in June…just in time for my birthday. lol Ja né!
Well, it’s that time again. Time to see the newest trailer for a superhero…well, superVILLAIN, in this case, movie. If you don’t know much about the Suicide Squad, here’s the basic concept: They’re a team of criminals (and maybe a couple of volunteers like Katana) who are given the chance to strike some time off their sentences in prison by doing work for the government. Some of these criminals might be familiar to Bat fans, like Harley Quinn, Deadshot, and Killer Croc. Also, as far as I can tell, Joker is the main antagonist. For now, though, let’s just take a look at the trailer.
… … … … …So, I suppose the first thing I should ask is… … …did anyone else get a bit of a Guardians of the Galaxy vibe from this trailer? Like they’re going for the same type of “team of misfits teaming up to a music montage” thing, only with the twist of them being villains? Seriously, I kinda wanna see a mashup of these trailers. Otherwise, Will Smith looks like he’s gonna be good, the tone fits the overall premise, and…well, Harley is more-or-less unrecognizable beyond the pigtails and New 52-adapted backstory, but it’s not a BAD take (as far as I can tell), just a little different.
Anyway, lemme know what your thoughts on the trailer were, and we’ll see how the movie does when it comes out August 5th. Ja né!
So, I was doing research on Superman in the DC Comics Database, when I found some rather interesting information that somewhat contradicts something that was said during the analysis of Superman and Goku during DEATH BATTLE. As many fans know, Superman and Goku have fought not once but twice in DEATH BATTLE, with Superman coming out the victor. However, based on this information I’ve found, and applying it to information and logic I already have, I’ve come to the following discovery: Even though Superman won both fights, he’s still going to DIE!
According to an issue of The Question Vol. 2, Lex Luthor discovered that, despite what Ben and Chad said, Superman IS vulnerable to ki (or chi as it was called there, but based on what I’ve found online, they’re exactly the same thing). As such, Luthor tried to weaponise ki against Superman to kill him. Now, the weapon ultimately failed, but considering said weapon was built by the guy Superman beats every Tuesday, it’s easy to assume that a man-made construct would fail to do the job, whereas a person who uses ki on a level similar to how Superman uses solar energy could succeed in killing him. As such, you really have to ask yourself the question: How did Superman walk through a blast of enough ki to blow up a planet like it was a strong breeze?
At first, I couldn’t come up with an answer, and it looked like the analysis for DEATH BATTLE had made a severe oversight. However, then I remembered their first encounter, wherein towards the end, Superman was knocked into the sun by Goku, who failed to understand Superman’s connection to it, and thus only managed to make him stronger. That’s when the answer came to me: All-Star Superman. In it, Superman had absorbed enough solar energy that, when he was blasted with a Kryptonite laser, its usual effect on him did absolutely nothing. Now, I know we’re already dealing in fictional minerals and men that can absorb and weaponise solar radiation, but try to bear with me as we apply that logic to his weakness to ki. That means that Superman’s little break in the sun could’ve conceivably granted him enough energy to plough straight through all of Goku’s ki. Plus, considering that energy he absorbed in All-Star Superman never left him by the time the story was over, it’s easy to assume he still had it in the rematch at SGC 2015. So, all’s well and good, right?
As was also established in All-Star Superman, high enough levels of solar radiation can be deadly even to Superman. As such, if we assume that my theory is correct in how Superman defeated Goku, it therefore stands to reason that his cells are now in a state of overload and he is going to die. So, yeah, DBZ fanboys can let themselves feel at least a little good that, in the end, Goku may have gotten the last laugh…y’know, except for the part where Goku’s character would never take pleasure in that sort of thing, so doing so kinda misses the whole point.
And while we’re on the subject, there’s one other thing I’ve been meaning to get off my chest: Even if a future transformation of Goku’s made him as strong as Superman, he still wouldn’t be able to beat him in a fight. How do I know this? It’s called MATH. As we’ve established, DEATH BATTLE takes their opponents not from a random point in their history, but at their maximum potential, and Superman’s maximum is INFINITY. As such, if Goku reached that same level, he still couldn’t win, because then they would both equal infinity. Infinity does not beat infinity. Infinity equals infinity, it cancels infinity, and infinity subtracted by infinity is zero. The best Goku can ever hope for is a draw. And let’s say, for the sake of argument, that Goku eventually gained a transformation powered by magic or Kryptonite (the latter of which will never happen for obvious reasons). The likelihood of Goku defeating Superman with such a form isn’t that great, because of the following:
- Superman could still overcharge his cells like I suggested earlier to defeat Goku at the cost of his own life.
- Goku generally prefers to beat opponents with his own abilities, admitting once to disliking using Super Saiyan God’s powers because he needed outside help to get it (though he kinda came to peace with it when his body was able to naturally re-absorb the energy when the transformation wore off). That’s probably the reason he doesn’t use the Power Pole anymore, and why he never uses the Spirit Bomb except against enemies capable of and/or planning to destroy the planet.
So, yes, within the context of the universe in which the Superman vs Goku battles took place, Superman is likely going to die from his battles with Goku, and some fans can choose to take that as a victory. I personally do not, and for the record I’m a fan of both characters, but I won’t judge any of you if you choose to do so, provided you do one other thing: QUIT YER BITCHIN’!!! It’s a frigging internet show made by fans for fans that is doing the best it can with over seven decades of fictional information to comb through, which seemingly continues to get more and more absurd every time something is added. It would be EASY to make a mistake somewhere. And, even if they’re right, I agree that, if I had a Goku who could reach the same kind of power as Superman, I probably wouldn’t want him. If the movie Man of Steel has taught me anything with how they tried to take the dark tones of the Batman movies and transplant them into Superman, it’s that one element of a character that works really well for them does not equal the same level of success when given to another. Goku’s character and what he stands for would completely fall the fuck apart if he were as powerful as Superman, because he’s all about aspiring to be better and breaking new limitations, and then he would have NOTHING LEFT. His story would be OVER. And, what it comes down to is, I don’t really want his story to be over. I think that’s part of the reason why I actually find myself liking this new series coming out, because it lets me continue to see what happens to these characters, their stories, and their histories…Although hopefully, this time around, a few less characters in Dragon Ball will find themselves getting screwed over. lol
But hey, that’s just my own thoughts on the matter. Leave your own in the comments section below, call me a nerd for looking all of this up, whatever, and hopefully we can all put this frigging argument to rest for a while. Ja né!